I hope that other riding associations will follow the lead of WVSCS2SC NDP association and just host their own debate. And I hope that if (when!) they do, the candidates make an effort to participate.
I took five years of high school French (1958- 1962) and listened to Gr. 4-6 French lessons from 1965- 1998 and my spoken French is terrible. My mouth just doesn't let the right words come out, so I feel for those who are struggling to learn French. Especially those who live where French is never spoken. I love the ideas coming from the candidates. When I think of Avi, I think Powerlines not Pipelines; The Take and worker ownership and control; Climate Clarity; the Many against the Monied and how to pay for our programs. I remember the Leap Manifesto and the New Green Deal - a fair transition for workers and families for a sustainable future. I want Tanille's Basic Income Guaranteed. We must have Tony's 4 Rs - Proportional Representation and electoral reform; and regeneration; redistribution; and redesign; we need Rob's solidarity with workers; and Heather's basic NDP values shared by 1000s across the country. As Rachel Notley said at Broadbent's Gala, 2024 - It's about our values, our shared beliefs, our integrity and our concern for people. Onward...we need a strong principled leader who can take on the other parties' leaders - debate, discuss and win with our values.
As a former long time supporter of the NDP it is not relevant and a total waste of time. The NDP was a quick and easy casualty of neoliberalism. Further more it is a waste of time until we get proportionate representation which appears to be in never never land thanks to Justin Trudeau. Those concerned would be much better off focusing their activism on the many critical issues we now face nationally and internationally.
It is unfortunate that the leadership contest hasn't attracted better talent. So why did ambitious pro-science, anti-genocide changemakers stay away? In a word, hopelessness. In my opinion, it comes down to the control big oil has on Canadian news media. It is, bar none, the most complete multi-generational indoctrination programme into extinctionist propaganda the wealthy world has ever witnessed. A complete control of the public discourse that even decades of social media has been unable to dent.
It is a crucial juncture for the NDP to either continue on the crowded path of pretending to care about climate change (a contest they will always lose to the LPC) or abandon fossil fuel extinctionism and actually consider a future economy built on public investments beyond beyond hydrocarbons. These are issues Quebecers care deeply about. Why are the non-French speakers even running? Why weren't they better prepared? Ego before common sense? It's beyond disrespectful.
It has always been a mystery to me that, historically, the NDP hasn't taken Québec more seriously given that social democracy is naturally at home in that province. It has been a font from which many of Canada's more progressive policies emerged, the national day care program being a striking recent example.
But the party is an increasingly loose conglomerate of regionalist factions. That's tough to build a national movement from, let alone a competitive one.
In a way, this is a painful side-effect of the English-Canadian obsession with the United States. For the last 35 years in Western Canada I've had to endure lines like "Why should we learn French? More people in the world speak Spanish!"
It is excruciating that I should have to say this, but here's your answer: because it's one of our official languages and the language of one of the founding cultures of our country, that's why.
The Orange Wave had many parents, but one of them was certainly that Jack Layton could speak French well and cared enough about Canada to make the party's performance in Québec a priority. Sure, winning in Québec takes more than a leader who can speak at French at better than Grade 7 level, but it sure as hell starts there.
It is emblematic of the current state of the NDP that this French non-debate was immediately followed by obviously AI-translated mailouts featuring delusional assertions that it was a huge success.
Of course, Jack was bilingual! He grew up in Quebec. Unfortunately, no one else from Quebec has come forward to run for leadership. Mulcair was bilingual as well. I wonder if all the politicians elected in Quebec speak English well?
It is not necessary that a potential party leader be from Québec. (If it is, then the NDP is in even bigger trouble than I thought.)
My point was that anybody who aspires to lead this country ought to be fluently bilingual and conversant in francophone culture, no matter where they come from. In majority English parts of the country we have devalued French and French-language education to such a degree and for so long that we now seem incapable of putting up a slate of candidates who can do much more than read a cereal box. And as we are presently finding out, that has consequences.
I think if I were a youth - I would be learning the business form of Chinese. Tanille is one of a handful of people who can speak her native language in BC. In the future,I feel she will master French. I believe that Tony born in 1952 and being NDP for 45 years put his name forward to advance his 4Rs - all of which are worthy or serious consideration. We did try to unite the bright back in the late 90s with the Canadian Politics Initiative. The right borrowed the idea and united the Alliance, Reform and Cons - now they do not split the vote. We need electoral reform - proportional representation; I could go on and on - about pharmacare, climate clarity, redistribution of our resources, but I won't because I am upset with others in another group who feel hearing from the candidates on important issues - healthcare, energy, environment, international affairs - is "partisan" - can't really write properly when I am so angry. Some people are too dumb for democracy - title of book by cousin David Moscrop.
If I were NDP officialdom, I might have allowed this insult to Quebeckers just so I could blame it on Reclaim-The-NDP or NDP-Renewal and then sideline them. If I were Engler, I'd be glad to have dodged a bullet. If I were an NDP member, I'd be wondering how this epic fail was supposed to attract new people or convince me to stay.
What do you propose the NDP should have done? Should there have only been two English debates? Should candidates have been required to speak only French the entire time? Should Ashton, Tanille, and McQuail have been banned from attending this debate, or from even running? Without going back in time 10 years and doing more to sustain our organizing in Québec, it's hard to see what could've been done in 2025 to avoid this.
I think one obvious alternative would have been to schedule the debate later so the candidates who needed to had a bit more time to practice. But beyond that, the debate didn't even meet the 60% threshold for French the party set for itself (as per the estimate I cited, only about 19% was actually in French). Maybe that 60% figure was always unrealistic given some of the candidates' limitations, but if so I think that just speaks to the wider problem here.
I doubt it would've even made much difference to delay until convention. They knew they'd need to speak French at some point before even announcing their candidacy, they already had at least that long to learn. I don't think there's much the organizers could've done differently (at least regarding French, the format is another matter). The poor French we saw is a symptom of a deeper, longer-term problem with how our party (members and staff alike) engage with Québec. And that problem leads to more than just poor French.
As someone who has only ever voted for the NDP since coming to Canada, that debate was beyond frustrating...
Great observations 👍🏿
Thanks comrade. (This is awhile back but I incidentally thought you were great in the televised Hamilton Mountain debate I watched earlier this year)
I hope that other riding associations will follow the lead of WVSCS2SC NDP association and just host their own debate. And I hope that if (when!) they do, the candidates make an effort to participate.
I took five years of high school French (1958- 1962) and listened to Gr. 4-6 French lessons from 1965- 1998 and my spoken French is terrible. My mouth just doesn't let the right words come out, so I feel for those who are struggling to learn French. Especially those who live where French is never spoken. I love the ideas coming from the candidates. When I think of Avi, I think Powerlines not Pipelines; The Take and worker ownership and control; Climate Clarity; the Many against the Monied and how to pay for our programs. I remember the Leap Manifesto and the New Green Deal - a fair transition for workers and families for a sustainable future. I want Tanille's Basic Income Guaranteed. We must have Tony's 4 Rs - Proportional Representation and electoral reform; and regeneration; redistribution; and redesign; we need Rob's solidarity with workers; and Heather's basic NDP values shared by 1000s across the country. As Rachel Notley said at Broadbent's Gala, 2024 - It's about our values, our shared beliefs, our integrity and our concern for people. Onward...we need a strong principled leader who can take on the other parties' leaders - debate, discuss and win with our values.
As a former long time supporter of the NDP it is not relevant and a total waste of time. The NDP was a quick and easy casualty of neoliberalism. Further more it is a waste of time until we get proportionate representation which appears to be in never never land thanks to Justin Trudeau. Those concerned would be much better off focusing their activism on the many critical issues we now face nationally and internationally.
It is unfortunate that the leadership contest hasn't attracted better talent. So why did ambitious pro-science, anti-genocide changemakers stay away? In a word, hopelessness. In my opinion, it comes down to the control big oil has on Canadian news media. It is, bar none, the most complete multi-generational indoctrination programme into extinctionist propaganda the wealthy world has ever witnessed. A complete control of the public discourse that even decades of social media has been unable to dent.
It is a crucial juncture for the NDP to either continue on the crowded path of pretending to care about climate change (a contest they will always lose to the LPC) or abandon fossil fuel extinctionism and actually consider a future economy built on public investments beyond beyond hydrocarbons. These are issues Quebecers care deeply about. Why are the non-French speakers even running? Why weren't they better prepared? Ego before common sense? It's beyond disrespectful.
It has always been a mystery to me that, historically, the NDP hasn't taken Québec more seriously given that social democracy is naturally at home in that province. It has been a font from which many of Canada's more progressive policies emerged, the national day care program being a striking recent example.
But the party is an increasingly loose conglomerate of regionalist factions. That's tough to build a national movement from, let alone a competitive one.
In a way, this is a painful side-effect of the English-Canadian obsession with the United States. For the last 35 years in Western Canada I've had to endure lines like "Why should we learn French? More people in the world speak Spanish!"
It is excruciating that I should have to say this, but here's your answer: because it's one of our official languages and the language of one of the founding cultures of our country, that's why.
The Orange Wave had many parents, but one of them was certainly that Jack Layton could speak French well and cared enough about Canada to make the party's performance in Québec a priority. Sure, winning in Québec takes more than a leader who can speak at French at better than Grade 7 level, but it sure as hell starts there.
It is emblematic of the current state of the NDP that this French non-debate was immediately followed by obviously AI-translated mailouts featuring delusional assertions that it was a huge success.
Embarrassing.
Please remember that Jack Layton was born in Montreal and raised in Hudson, Quebec.
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Can you clarify?
Of course, Jack was bilingual! He grew up in Quebec. Unfortunately, no one else from Quebec has come forward to run for leadership. Mulcair was bilingual as well. I wonder if all the politicians elected in Quebec speak English well?
It is not necessary that a potential party leader be from Québec. (If it is, then the NDP is in even bigger trouble than I thought.)
My point was that anybody who aspires to lead this country ought to be fluently bilingual and conversant in francophone culture, no matter where they come from. In majority English parts of the country we have devalued French and French-language education to such a degree and for so long that we now seem incapable of putting up a slate of candidates who can do much more than read a cereal box. And as we are presently finding out, that has consequences.
I think if I were a youth - I would be learning the business form of Chinese. Tanille is one of a handful of people who can speak her native language in BC. In the future,I feel she will master French. I believe that Tony born in 1952 and being NDP for 45 years put his name forward to advance his 4Rs - all of which are worthy or serious consideration. We did try to unite the bright back in the late 90s with the Canadian Politics Initiative. The right borrowed the idea and united the Alliance, Reform and Cons - now they do not split the vote. We need electoral reform - proportional representation; I could go on and on - about pharmacare, climate clarity, redistribution of our resources, but I won't because I am upset with others in another group who feel hearing from the candidates on important issues - healthcare, energy, environment, international affairs - is "partisan" - can't really write properly when I am so angry. Some people are too dumb for democracy - title of book by cousin David Moscrop.
If I were NDP officialdom, I might have allowed this insult to Quebeckers just so I could blame it on Reclaim-The-NDP or NDP-Renewal and then sideline them. If I were Engler, I'd be glad to have dodged a bullet. If I were an NDP member, I'd be wondering how this epic fail was supposed to attract new people or convince me to stay.
If the party doesn't double down on select issues, there won't be a federal party after the next election. Might I suggest:
1. A cross-Canada plan to deal with Trump's tariffs, be they on agriculture, lumber or manufacturing products.
2. Specific policy that addresses the crisis facing auto, steel, and aluminum workers.
3. Policy that persuades Canadians that environmental issues remain front and centre.
4. A commitment to engage with EU allies and to broaden trade partnerships.
5. Open discussion of social democracy and how it differs from Carney's liberalism.
6. Open discussion of Canada's fading role as an international peacekeeper and how an NDP government could reverse that slide.
What do you propose the NDP should have done? Should there have only been two English debates? Should candidates have been required to speak only French the entire time? Should Ashton, Tanille, and McQuail have been banned from attending this debate, or from even running? Without going back in time 10 years and doing more to sustain our organizing in Québec, it's hard to see what could've been done in 2025 to avoid this.
I think one obvious alternative would have been to schedule the debate later so the candidates who needed to had a bit more time to practice. But beyond that, the debate didn't even meet the 60% threshold for French the party set for itself (as per the estimate I cited, only about 19% was actually in French). Maybe that 60% figure was always unrealistic given some of the candidates' limitations, but if so I think that just speaks to the wider problem here.
I doubt it would've even made much difference to delay until convention. They knew they'd need to speak French at some point before even announcing their candidacy, they already had at least that long to learn. I don't think there's much the organizers could've done differently (at least regarding French, the format is another matter). The poor French we saw is a symptom of a deeper, longer-term problem with how our party (members and staff alike) engage with Québec. And that problem leads to more than just poor French.
Well said however important to note Tenille Johnston is bilingual. She speaks liḵ̕wala and English.
Wow they just look so low IQ. I guess they are huh?